EP 161: When God Brags And Satan Accuses: Job Part Two

Diana WinklerDiscussion

If God bragged about you to Satan, how would you respond? How would you hold up to Satan accusing you to God and wanting to destroy you? We’re continuing with our series in the book of Job. Today we are in the throne room of God. We talk about what an angel is, the trauma of Job’s wife, and Job’s response to losing everything.

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Job intro and Chapter One

[00:00:00] If God bragged about you to Satan, how would you respond? How would you hold up

[00:00:06] to Satan having free will to destroy you? We’re continuing with our series in the book of Job. Today we are in the throne room of God. Join me next on the Wounds of the Faithful podcast.

[00:00:23] Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer, songwriter, speaker, and domestic violence advocate, Diana Winkler. She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help.

[00:00:49] Now, here is Diana.

[00:00:57] Hello, friends. Welcome back to the [00:01:00] podcast.

[00:01:00] This is going to be exciting. We are going into the throne room of God today. We’re still in chapter one of Job. We did the intro last week. I’m not going to repeat that, so if you did not hear last week’s, Podcast, please go back and listen before listening to this one. These are going to be around 30 to 40 minutes for you so you can listen to the whole thing and get all of the content even during a short car ride.

[00:01:34] We’re just going to jump into

[00:01:37] chapter 1, verse 6, and we’re going to see, what’s happening here. I’m reading from the ESV. You are welcome to read any version that you enjoy.

[00:01:48] Verse 6, Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord. And Satan also came among them. The Lord said to Satan, [00:02:00] From where have you come? Satan answered the Lord and said, From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it. And the Lord said to Satan.

[00:02:14] Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil? Then Satan answered the Lord and said, Does Job fear God for no reason? Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has on every side?

[00:02:38] You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. But stretch out your hand. Touch all that he has and he will curse you to your face. And the Lord said to Satan, behold all that he has in your hand, all that he has is in your hand [00:03:00] only against him. Do not stretch out your hand.

[00:03:03] So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord. So let’s talk a little bit about this. Unpack it, uh, the sons of God, those, that’s angelic beings.

[00:03:15] And they can include the good angels and the bad angels. I’m just saying that in simplistic terms.

[00:03:23] And I wanted to go over a little bit about angels because I’m not going to assume that everyone here is familiar with the doctrine of angelology. I know friends and family who are Christians. Who do not understand, who are not knowledgeable about basic doctrine of angels. So I wanted to briefly go over that

[00:03:50] just so that we clear up any discrepancies in the culture around us that talks about [00:04:00] angels in movies and pop culture. Some of it is really wrong. I say wrong, but If you’re talking about it being what’s in the Bible, then yeah, it’s, it does not match what the Bible describes as an angel.

[00:04:15] If you just want to come up with your own worldly definition of an angel for fantasy or pop culture sake for fun. Great.

[00:04:25] You know, we’ve got, It’s a Wonderful Life. I love that movie. That’s a great movie. It has great lessons. You know, Clarence getting his wings. Well, angels don’t get their wings,

[00:04:37] they’ve always had their wings, okay? But, I’m not gonna beat over the head somebody that likes That movie because it has a lot of great truths, a lot of lessons. Um, it’s a tear jerking story. It’s, heartwarming. And, yeah, that’s one example. one other faulty example is that angels are, babies with wings.

[00:04:59] You see the little baby [00:05:00] butts. there are different kinds of angels in the Bible. None of them are described as little babies with little butts. With wings.

[00:05:08] So what are angels? Angels are spirits. They’re angelic beings that are created by God. They’re a creation. Human beings do not turn into angels. That’s one thing I like to mention because you hear that a lot in conversation. Oh, she’s now an angel in heaven. Well, that’s not correct as far as the Bible is concerned.

[00:05:32] Yes, we’re being kind when somebody dies, and we love that person, and we want to say something positive. Yes, we can say positive things about our loved ones

[00:05:43] that have passed on to the other side without resorting to incorrect things about, the Bible. Am I going to mention that during a funeral? No, I’m not. also,

[00:05:55] How did we get evil angels like Satan and[00:06:00] holy angels? Well, the Bible talks about the fall of angels. This was before mankind,

[00:06:08] that Satan was a created being, created to serve God. He wanted to take over the throne of God. And what the cause of this was? Pride. He was one of God’s most beautiful angels. You see in pop culture that Satan is described as, you know, a guy in red pajamas you know, pitchfork. Well, I don’t know where that came from, but it’s not true.

[00:06:36] Uh, let’s see if I can find the verse it’s in Ezekiel, I believe. Satan was conceited. He wanted to be God. And so God threw him and one third of the angels who chose to Follow Satan.

[00:06:52] So, Satan was created and fell before God rested on the seventh day.

[00:06:57] Alright, here’s some verses here.

[00:06:59] [00:07:00] Isaiah 14, 12 through 16. How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn. And this is talking about Satan. You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations. You who You said in your heart. I will ascend to the heavens. I will raise my throne above the stars of God. I will sit enthroned on the Mount of Assembly, on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.

[00:07:30] I will ascend above the tops of the clouds. I will make myself like the Most High. But you are brought down to the realm of the dead, to the depths of the pit. Those who seek you stare at you. They ponder your fate. Is this the one who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble?

[00:07:48] Okay, and then in Ezekiel 28, 13. Through 19. You were in Eden, the garden of God. Every precious stone adorned you. Carnelian, [00:08:00] chrysolite, and emerald, topaz, onyx, and jasper. Lapis, Lazuli, Turquoise, and Beryl, your settings and mountings were made of gold, and on the day you were created, they were prepared.

[00:08:16] You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for I so ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God. You walked among the fiery stones. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till wickedness was found in you. Through your widespread trade, you were filled with violence, and you sinned.

[00:08:41] So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones. Your heart became proud on account of your beauty. And you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. So I threw you to [00:09:00] the earth. I made a spectacle of you before Kings. By your many sins and dishonest trade, you have desecrated your sanctuaries.

[00:09:08] So I made a fire come out from you and it consumed you and they reduced you to ashes on the ground in the sight of all who were watching. All the nations who knew you or appalled at you, you have come to a horrible end and will be no more.

[00:09:23] So, there’s

[00:09:24] a lot of other things in here.

[00:09:26] So, Satan isn’t going to have access to heaven forever.

[00:09:30] And, uh, Morning Stars are angels.

[00:09:34] So, the different types of angels. Michael and Gabriel are, of course, the good angels. They are archangels, and they are warriors. They fight the unholy angels. As we’ve seen in the Bible,

[00:09:52] Gabriel also deliver messages like to Mary for example. Mary hears from, the angel that she [00:10:00] is going to be bearing. Jesus . Going to be, the mother of Jesus. So there are Cherubim. Cherubim guard the throne of God. So, Satan was actually a Cherubim.

[00:10:11] So they fight spiritual wars behind the scenes, okay? They are spirit beings. They do not have a physical body.

[00:10:17] Seraphim they worship before the throne of God constantly, day and night. So like in Revelation, holy, holy, holy. Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come. Over and over again.

[00:10:32] Before the throne of God. So,

[00:10:34] those are seraphim.

[00:10:36] Angels do not reproduce because they are spirits. Their job is to serve God. They do the bidding of God. The only way that demons can be seen is depicted in the Bible as they possess another person.

[00:10:54] You see this a lot in Jesus Day in the Gospels, he casts out many demons [00:11:00] because they are possessing a human being. You see that in pop culture.

[00:11:04] And how can demons leave the body of another person? It is through the name of Jesus, not holy water.

[00:11:11] Jesus says by fasting in prayer, in faith. So other things about angels, the holy angels appear to man and they can take on a form that is more palatable to our sight. They sometimes look like men, to visit us.

[00:11:30] One very important caveat I need to tell you is that, Satan is not the opposite of God.

[00:11:37] That is not correct, that is a common misconception.

[00:11:42] Satan is, like I said, a created being. Satan’s opposite may be one of the archangels, like Michael or Gabriel.

[00:11:49] Angels they’re depicted as having wings. But they pretty much travel at the speed of thought because they are spirits. They don’t have physical bodies like we [00:12:00] have

[00:12:00] and so they are going to and from the earth in the the space in between Heaven and Earth.

[00:12:07] Satan is not all powerful. He cannot create anything. He can only twist and manipulate something that already exists. Sex, for instance. God created sex. To be beautiful between two loving married people and Satan twists that, destroys it, makes it something dirty. I’m stating that Satan cannot do a lot of things.

[00:12:32] Satan can tempt people to do things, but Satan cannot make you do something. You still have a choice, uh, unless you are possessed, physically possessed by a demon. Which is real, I have missionary friends in foreign countries that have personally seen demonic possession. Angels are not all powerful and one other caveat is that Angels don’t do our [00:13:00] bidding. And you ask, well, what about guardian angels? My guardian angels? Well, angels do protect us.

[00:13:06] We don’t pray to angels because Angels don’t work for you They work for God, and so I know that some denominations they have prayers to angels or they’re very focused on angels doing things for them or praying for them. Well, angels don’t pray for you. They intercede for you at the command of God. It’s a very, important distinction that God, Sends the angels as messengers.

[00:13:32] Yes, we recognize that angels exist in the other realm that we can’t see. They are behind the scenes, but we don’t want to be over affixiated on Satan or even holy angels because that takes away the attention from God. Angels point to God. They glorify God. Except Satan here.

[00:13:52] So

[00:13:53] now we got the basics of Angelology here, probably more than you wanted to know,[00:14:00] but I don’t assume that people know this stuff.

[00:14:03] So, I want to start with verse 8, Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man who fears God and turns away from evil. And a lot of people see. This chapter is, well, God is gambling with Job’s life.

[00:14:21] I would not use the word gambling because, for one, God is all knowing, omniscient. Fancy word there. He knows that Job is righteous. He knows. That Job is going to stand firm in his faith. He knows he is going to survive this onslaught that he’s about to enter into. He is putting Satan, the deceiver, in his place.

[00:14:48] Okay, let’s focus on that word deceiver. Everybody wants to blame God here for Job’s, well, a lot of people call it a test.

[00:14:58] I don’t really [00:15:00] call it a test because… God already knows he’s going to pass the test. He’s not gambling with Job’s life. He is demonstrating that I am God and there are people on this earth that will worship me because I am God. I am the creator of the universe. Yes, I give good things to Job, but you can’t come here and accuse my Job, my servant Job,

[00:15:24] that he’s shallow and he is only following me and he only worships me because I give him good things. We already saw here that Job was performing animal sacrifices for his family just in case they were sinning. To me that doesn’t sound like that he’s following God because He has been blessed. He’s not taking it for granted that God is blessing him.

[00:15:51] He is still trying to keep his list short between him and God. I don’t want to give God any [00:16:00] reason to punish me, and yes,

[00:16:02] This is my commentary, obviously,

[00:16:04] and the angels are all watching this go down. What is going to happen? The angels are not omniscient. They do not know man’s thoughts or what’s going to happen.

[00:16:16] Only God does. Satan doesn’t know what’s going to happen. He is the accuser. That is one of his names. Satan has many names. Beelzebub, the accuser of the brethren. Father of Lies, is accusing us before the other angels and God. So if you want to get mad at anybody, you don’t want to get mad at God, because he is saying how great Job is.

[00:16:44] Fantastic!

[00:16:45] Job is blameless and upright.

[00:16:48] I hope that’s what God is saying about me. I wonder what God says about me when Satan is coming before the throne of God and accusing accusing God [00:17:00] of myself. Maybe that’s the trial that I just went through last year. Maybe that was, oh, yeah, well, Diana only worships you because she has a good job and she’s got food on the table and, you know, they’re both healthy because all those things were taken away last year, both of us.

[00:17:20] Uh, so I, I really want to say this. Point this out, that it is Satan who is accusing, and yes, God allows him to do certain things. But God is still in control here.

[00:17:33] So here we go.

[00:17:35] So we’re going to go to verse 13 here. Now there was a day when his sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother’s house. And there came a messenger to Job and said, the oxen were plowing,

[00:17:49] the donkeys feeding beside them, and the Sabians fell upon them and took them and struck down the servants with the edge of the sword.

[00:17:58] And I alone [00:18:00] have escaped to tell you, while he was yet speaking, there came another, and said, The fire of God fell from heaven, and burned up the sheep and servants, and consumed them. And I alone have escaped to tell you, while he was yet speaking, there came another, and said, The Chaldeans formed three groups.

[00:18:22] And made a raid on the camels and took them and struck down the servants with the edge of the sword. And I alone have escaped to tell you, while he was speaking, there came another and said, your sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother’s house. And behold, a great wind came across the wilderness and struck the four corners of the house and it fell upon the young people.

[00:18:52] And they are dead, and I have alone, and I alone have escaped to tell you. Then Job arose and tore his [00:19:00] robe, and shaved his head, and fell on the ground and worshipped. And he said, Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away. Blessed be the name of the Lord.

[00:19:18] In all this, Job did not sin or charge God with wrong. So,

[00:19:22] this is a bad part of his story. This is where he loses everything.

[00:19:29] Let’s take a look here and unpack this,

[00:19:32] And here’s an example of a very godly family, uh, drinking wine and enjoying that. Which is a side tidbit. So in 15, who are the Sabians?

[00:19:43] So, the most common view of this is they were inhabitants of Sheba, whose queen visited Solomon in 1 Kings 10. So, this was from the Arabian Peninsula, this is what my commentary says. And people point out the servants like I am I [00:20:00] alone escaped to tell you well They’re all talking about they are servants of one particular part of the house or a particular part of the property So wherever they were each of these servants that survived. Yes They alone were survived long enough to tell job what had happened In whatever capacity they were in charge of.

[00:20:24] So in verse 16, uh, the fire of God, they see it as fire of God. We always hear the words of God, a hurricane or a tornado, uh, that’s because we don’t understand. We don’t understand nature, especially when it goes rogue and destroys things. We say that they are acts of God. God created the world as it is, but we live in a fallen world. And that affects the earth as well.

[00:20:55] So things happen because the world is fallen as [00:21:00] well, but it says in My commentary here, my Bible, it says that it was probably lightning that they’re talking about, the fire of God,

[00:21:09] but that’s their perspective. Sure looks like it came from God. Chaldeans,

[00:21:13] that’s present day Babylon,

[00:21:15] so they were descendants, relatives, Abraham’s ancestors.

[00:21:20] So, the great wind that pushed the house over was probably a hurricane, but they had names for things. It says Sirocco in here, which is a dry desert wind that blows in the early and late summer throughout the Middle East. So, here in Arizona, they call A dust storm, they call it a haboob here. And I mean, I lived here since I was a child and we had dust storms and never heard of the word haboob till I was.

[00:21:55] Let’s see, probably ten years ago, I noticed the news are [00:22:00] calling it a haboob, a dust storm. So anyway, that’s their name for their storm.

[00:22:06] So Satan has the power and desire to afflict Job, but he has to get permission from God to do these things. So when God allows it, Satan’s more than happy to attack Job up to the limits that he’s allowed to do so. But his power is not unlimited, as we were saying. He is not all powerful.

[00:22:28] God puts the brakes on Satan. And this is not to gratify the devil’s desires. But he wants to shame Satan and his angels.

[00:22:38] Okay.

[00:22:39] And sometimes this little,

[00:22:41] this little incident between God and Satan is called a game. I don’t see it as a game. Maybe to Satan it might be a game.

[00:22:48] And that Job is a pawn. I don’t see it that way anymore because God again is in control of the situation as far as what Satan is allowed to do.

[00:22:58] Yes, God is [00:23:00] using Job to the devil in his place. I am the Lord God, you are not. You’re not going to come here and accuse my people, my servants, of these things.

[00:23:10] You do as I tell you to do. You have power that I give you and no more.

[00:23:15] So, God is not meaninglessly, allowed to torment Job. God has full confidence in the genuineness of Job’s faith.

[00:23:24] So, we can also see here,

[00:23:26] When Job found out about this from his servants, Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head, fell on the ground, and worshipped. Now, this is… The way that people mourned back in the day, you tore your clothes, and we see examples of this all throughout scripture. You shaved your head, even women have shaved their heads.

[00:23:48] It shows everybody that they’re in mourning. I guess they didn’t wear black, they put on sackcloth, they shaved their head, they tear their clothes.

[00:23:58] Job is still [00:24:00] worshiping the Lord. Naked I came from my father’s womb, and naked shall I return. Blessed be the name of the Lord.

[00:24:06] In all this, Job did not sin or charge God with wrong.

[00:24:09] And, uh, we’re gonna definitely see further. I wanted to at least get through to chapter 3.

[00:24:17] Satan is not satisfied with what has happened. Satan was not expecting Job to get on the ground and worship God and say, blessed be the name of the Lord. God, God knew that was going to happen. Satan’s like, I’m going to turn up the heat now. You may have passed this little scenario, but I’ve got some more in store for you.

[00:24:42] chapter two is basically a repeat of Satan coming up to the throne of God. With the other angels, they have the same conversation, except a little bit of a twist.

[00:24:57] God is still bragging on [00:25:00] Job here. Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil. He still holds fast his integrity, although you incited me against him, to destroy him without reason. Verse 4 Then Satan answered the Lord and said, Skin for skin, all that a man has he will give for his life, but stretch out your hand and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse you to your face.

[00:25:36] And the Lord said to Satan, Behold, he is in your hand, only spare his life. So verse 7, So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and struck Job. With loathsome sores from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head. And he took a piece of broken pottery with which to scrape himself while he sat in the ashes.[00:26:00] [00:26:00] Most people, most scholars say these are boils, blistering, itchy. I don’t know, maybe it was chicken pox, who knows? Um, broken pottery, that’s all you had to scrape yourself with. That’s pretty miserable. I recently went to the dermatologist for this dry itchy scalp and she gave me this shampoo and a steroid lotion and I used it like three times and I broke out in blistering.

[00:26:29] I was apparently allergic to whatever was in that shampoo. I blistered all over my scalp and back of my neck and wherever that shampoo touched and it was miserable. It was… Horribly itchy and, some of these blisters were painful. It took weeks for them to go away, so I kept thinking about this passage of these boils from head to toe.

[00:26:54] I can’t imagine having to deal with that, all over my body.

[00:26:58] So let’s go to verse [00:27:00] 9. Then his wife said to him, do you still hold fast your integrity? Curse God and die. But he said to her, You speak as one of the foolish women who would speak. Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this Job did not sin with his lips.

[00:27:21] Now,

[00:27:22] let’s talk about the wife really quick here. We don’t have the name of the wife.

[00:27:26] And, she gets a lot of flack. In reading through Job now as a survivor of trauma, I look at her a little differently. Maybe you will too. She had all these children, and back in that day, that was your identity as a woman. You are a mother. You raise your children. The more children you had, the happier you were.

[00:27:52] To not have children was seen as… Uh, you were an outcast in society if you didn’t [00:28:00] have children. Being barren was, most people considered that as a curse because your family, that was your retirement package. Your children took care of you. There were no nursing homes. There was no social security.

[00:28:14] There was nobody else to take care of you, but your family. And, the children, of course, if you didn’t have servants, then they would help you to divvy up the work. More hands make less work for everybody, right? in those days, big families were encouraged. Big families were valued. And this was the wife’s identity. She cared for her family. She just lost every one of them instantly. She lost her house. Her house is destroyed. She couldn’t even be a wife that took care of her home.

[00:28:48] It’s gone. The servants, most of them are gone. the livestock is gone. She has nothing. And so she’s mourning too of this great loss. And, and everybody [00:29:00] gets on Job’s wife and tells him to curse God and die. She is coming from a place of pain, just like the rest of us. We all have said something we didn’t mean when we are in pain, emotional pain, physical pain.

[00:29:16] We lash out at people. I really think that she’s just… Angry and she’s lashing out and saying something probably pretty stupid. Curse God and die. We don’t really hear that much about Job’s wife after this. Maybe just mentioning and passing, but we don’t know what happens with her grieving. What is she doing? The devil didn’t give her boils, but she may be separating herself And grieving in her own way.

[00:29:49] But Job says to her, you speak as one of the foolish women who would speak. Should we receive good from God and not receive evil? And all this Job did not sin with [00:30:00] his lips. He realized that this is a sin cursed world. And bad things happen to everybody,

[00:30:07] and he’s had a pretty good life, pretty easy life, and he is realistic about, well, maybe it’s our turn. Our neighbors have been through hard times. Can we expect it to be always good all of the time? I really have to hand it to Job when he says that. Because, you know, I’ve been through that. You’ve been through that. Some horrible, horrible things.

[00:30:30] I didn’t respond the way Job did. I was very much, probably like the wife, lashing out in pain. I didn’t say curse God and die, but, you know, I was angry.

[00:30:43] I was definitely angry. And everybody mourns in their own way, so… I’m going to stop here with stating that Job did not sin. Up to this point, he has not sinned. He still has his faith and we don’t see any more of Satan [00:31:00] past this point. I think Satan’s just kind of slinking away with his angels going over in the corner to watch to see what happens, but there is no more of Satan going up to the throne room to accuse Job of anything.

[00:31:17] So so far this is working, in verse 11 it starts talking about Job’s friends. So I’m going to talk about Job’s friends next time.

[00:31:28] And you’ll see, uh, what wretched comforters they are. That’s a quote from Job himself. actually it’s, it’s four of his friends. So, I hope that maybe you learned something, a different perspective. Do you have any comments? You are welcome to, react to this on social media if you have any questions feel free to read ahead.

[00:31:55] Come back next week as we start talking about his interaction with [00:32:00] his friends here on the Wounds of the Faithful podcast. God bless you. Bye for now.

[00:32:05] Thank you for listening to the Wounds of the Faithful podcast. If this episode has been helpful to you, please hit the subscribe button and tell a friend. You can connect with us at DSW Ministries dot org, where you’ll find our blog along with our Facebook, Twitter, and our YouTube channel links. Hope to see you next week!