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Welcome back to Part 2 of my conversation with Jessie Torres. How do you forgive someone who killed your brother? How do you forgive your father when he sexually abused you? We are going to find out a fresh perspective about forgiveness from Jessie’s own experiences and how you can find peace after abuse and trauma. You don’t want to miss this episode!
BIO:
For the last 18 years Peak Performance Coach and Life Strategist, Jessie Torres has coached thousands of High Performance People from all walks of life and various parts of the world that have achieved success and the highest level of fulfillment. Out of the top 120 coaches on the planet, Jessie ranked either number 1 or top 3 in every measurable category while working with the top coaching company in the world. Jessie is fueled by a passionate love for humanity and a burning desire to end suffering. She is driven to discover the truth of the client’s deepest potential and unlock the limitless opportunities that leave others in the dark ages! Bringing all levels of mindset, emotional intelligence, energy and strategy with an authentic, client driven approach. Jessie’s teachings will help you transform your life from pain or trauma into purpose and passion, what Jessie refers to as “Fierce Grace”.
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A book Jessie also mentioned:
Broken to Brilliant, Breaking Free to Be You After Domestic Violence, Stories of Strength and Success.
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Transcript: Jessie Torres Part Two
[00:00:00] Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer, songwriter, speaker, and domestic violence advocate, Diana Winkler. She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help. [00:00:25] Now, here is Diana. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. Thanks for being here and coming to hear the second half of my interview with Jessie Torres. I’m not going to go into too much review about her story her abusive father and the death of her two brothers. And. That just created so many paradoxes [00:01:00] of trauma. [00:01:00] Please go back and listen to part one if you have not. You have missed a whole bunch, but Part two is gold. She is just going to go into forgiveness and dealing with your past abusers. How to actually make the decision to leave your abuser. [00:01:18] She has a free gift for us. So I’m not going to delay any further. Here’s part two of my awesome conversation with Jesse Torres. Enjoy! [00:01:29] And it wasn’t until my brother actually showed himself to me. I actually saw him, it was a moment of deep sorrow and I was crying and I literally saw him standing there and he was all in white and there was like these white shadows that look like people, and he just, all he did with his hand, he just gestured and he just said like, look, and he’s like, just everything is as it’s supposed to be. [00:01:51] And I didn’t even know what that meant at the time, but it brought me calm and I knew he was okay. And from that has been a [00:02:00] journey of coming back to my own spiritual beliefs, coming back to my connection to God, coming back to my trust in divine order. And when my little brother was killed a year and a half ago. How do you deal with two? [00:02:13] I mean, the first one’s a nightmare. How do you even I think part of the journey has been, since my older brother’s death and part of my own journey of healing has been understanding humanity, right? I had to learn to fall in love with Jessie. [00:02:29] I had to find the aspects of her that weren’t. Not the victim, but the beautiful light that got back up, right? The victorious little girl that still chose to be kind, that still chose to have resilience, that when I was building traps to warn me when my dad was coming into my room, right? It’s like, we can say that’s terrible that a little girl had to do that. [00:02:52] And I’m like, it is, that’s true. But what’s also true is that I was massively resourceful. I was massively creative. I was massively brave, [00:03:00] right? And I didn’t know that I was going to need resourcefulness, creativity, and bravery when I was leaving my marriage and when things got very hostile. So, but God did. [00:03:12] God knew. Right? If we could have a whisper of God’s voice to say, trust in me, and we don’t get to know the why. Why did my little brother get killed 30 years later? Like, I was like, no, like that already happened once in our family. That’s, we already we checked the box. [00:03:28] We that’s not meant to happen. But in my own healing and my own journey, part of my mission in life is to bring light into the darkest moments, right? How can we find light in the darkest moments? How can we still see through the lenses of love, even when we’re in pain? And when that happened with my little brother, it was so shocking. [00:03:48] And I was like, no, like, and I don’t usually go to anger, but I felt rage. I was mad at my brother. I was mad at the guy that killed him. I was mad at the freaking streets of Compton. I was mad at. The [00:04:00] world, society, I was just like, so livid because that wasn’t supposed to happen. My little brother and I talked about being on stages together and helping serve the world and that what he had been through since our brother’s death. [00:04:10] He was only 15 when my older brother died and he idolized him. So he had been looking for this older brother thing and he got connected to gangs and he got connected to, that lifestyle. Looking for brotherhood and, connection. And at the stage of his life where he was murdered, he was doing the best he ever had. [00:04:28] He was taking his seven and eight year old to school. He was helping them with their homework. He opened up a a business called Resilience LLC. Like he, he was really making things, steps happen. We were going to do this together. And so that was a big uppercut. And here’s what I believe. I believe that for me because I kept asking God, I’m like, okay, what do you want me to see? [00:04:50] What do you want me to know? Like if this is here, which I am constantly preaching, everything in life happens for our highest and greatest good, even the suck. And then if [00:05:00] I trust in divine order and I trust in all of it, I don’t get to decide how it happens. But if my journey is for me to have lost both my brothers, there’s something for me here. [00:05:13] Like, what do you want me to get? What am I to do with this pain? Right? I’m here to alchemize pain and turn it into something beautiful. That’s what I’m here to do. And so what it had me do is like, okay, God, if you want me to eat my own medicine, you want me to find the light in this profound depth of my pain. [00:05:30] All right. So I did. Right? That I could feel that in the deepest moments of my sorrow and my gut wrenching tears, I could acknowledge that the depth of my pain was converse to the depth of my love. I could find that his daughters, who three of them from different mothers, he has nine of them total, but three of them, the oldest ones who were not raised together, meeting for the first time and acting as though they’d been sisters forever. [00:05:59] And how [00:06:00] beautiful it was. And seeing my family show up in a way that I’ve never seen before. Seeing how people were posting on his Instagram, how he changed their lives. So I was, even though I’m crying and I’m hurting, I was still able to see the beauty. And so my mission is to help people, even when they’re in the depth of darkness, know that darkness is only the absence of light. [00:06:23] And that in our heart, we all have a beam of light waiting to be expressed. And it’s not that darkness wins, it’s that we dim. And in the moments where darkness seems like it’s the only thing, it’s when we’re meant to turn up our light. Your brothers seemed like such wonderful kind souls and to be snuffed out like that. [00:06:48] But I like what you so eloquently said about finding those beautiful moments in the midst of the pain and the mourning [00:07:00] process. I want to go back to your marriage and you’re getting out of this marriage. I’m jumping around a little bit, but is it true you couldn’t even drive out of the city that you lived in because you were just so controlled and sheltered and your husband ran everything in your home? [00:07:18] I mean, wow. Definitely. I couldn’t even take the class I wanted to take because, he was just so jealous and insecure. And back then, this is 2003, so I think MapQuest was just coming out. Yeah. So I had to actually buy a Thomas Guide and, just to figure out how to get out. [00:07:39] And I was scared. I was scared of everything. And one thing I want to share with your audience is that there was something in me that, that knew there was a bigger fight than I was even conscious of. I just knew that I had to be there for my kids. And so. Everything that scared me, it’s like I put myself on the front lines. [00:07:58] If it scared me, I’m just [00:08:00] like, okay, I’m going into it because I have to build grit. I have to be able to get through. I don’t know how to do this life. I went from my father’s arms to my husband’s arms. From my first 18 years to my next 18 years. Exactly. And so I not lived life on my own. [00:08:17] And so it was scary, but what’s beautiful about God, the grace of God, Providence, whatever your belief is, Source, Universe, like the minute you decide, the path reveals itself. I think , one of the toughest things about situations that seem impossible to get out of is that we are so concerned on the how, that we don’t take action on our dream. [00:08:43] If you have a dream to be free, if you have a dream to live a different life, know that your trust and your declaration that is the life you will have, the path will open up, but you have to be willing to go after it [00:09:00] and not resolve to your current situation. What got you to where you’re at. [00:09:05] It’s not, what’s going to get you to the next level, right? You have to be willing to do things differently and you have to be willing to step into an unknown. Unknown is not always dangerous. It’s just unknown. It’s terrifying that we’ve only lived, with your parents and you lived with your husband and then I know for me, it was terrifying. [00:09:25] Where am I going to live? What am I going to do for work? I have to start all over again, I’m going to lose all my friends. I’m going to lose my church. All these things just paralyze you when you’re at that threshold, I’ve got to get out of here. And you said it so well that you’ve got to, step forward and jump right in. [00:09:48] You, jumped off the diving board, I think. Yeah, I did. Into the deep end. I did. And looking back at it now, my boys were 17 and a half. My daughter was [00:10:00] 15. If I had any like retrospect or I might’ve waited till my boys graduated. Right. But it was at threshold. I couldn’t decide the timing. [00:10:13] I just knew I couldn’t go one more day, so it just was what it was and that’s what it had to be. But it does work out. And now there’s so much available, so much available to help, back then it wasn’t as big to be able to connect, like we do, we have the internet now, resources. [00:10:36] So know that you are not helpless and that there are people that really care. You’ve you’ve talked about divine choreography, but can you share what is this Fierce Grace that you talk about? Fierce Grace is my program. It’s my ethos. It’s the name of my company. It’s everything I drive from. [00:10:57] And the reason I love Fierce Grace is [00:11:00] because it’s elements within us that sometimes we don’t know we’ve got until our knees hit the floor. Right? The ability to move with mama bear energy, nothing’s going to stop me. And the ability to still show up in love. It’s the masculine, it’s the feminine, it’s the essence of who we are. [00:11:16] It’s what shows up when a stay at home mom lifts a Volkswagen off a child. Right? It’s not, Because she thought about it and she’s like, Oh, the car’s too heavy. It’s like the love for that child has her do the impossible, the unmentionable, right? So fierce grace is those dual elements that live within all of us. [00:11:34] And we don’t know, right? Especially when we feel, especially in domestic violence situations, it’s always, you feel so weak, right? You feel so weak and you feel like you’re inferior and you feel like you don’t have the strength to move forward. And For every person that’s out there hearing that’s in that situation, God, all I feel is massive love and respect for you. [00:11:58] Like knowing that you are [00:12:00] in a situation or you’re getting out of a situation or whatever that you have, you’re still standing. And you’re listening to this podcast, which means to me that you’re looking, you’re seeking for support. You’re seeking for ways out. You’re seeking for something to land, to give you the strength to make the right decision. [00:12:16] I have nothing but mad respect for you and know that there’s a deeper resolve in you that you just haven’t tapped into yet. That’s there. It’s available, but you have to seek it and you have to trust that you have it in you. Even when it looks like there’s no way. And so fierce grace is being able to find that element, that mama bear energy, that, that part that says, nothing’s going to stop me. [00:12:39] I’m going to lift that Volkswagen. I’m going to do the impossible and the grace to do it from a place of love. I love it. I love it. Now we’re all thinking about anytime we talk about abuse and all the horrible trauma that we go through. Especially in the church, they’re always like very quick to say, you gotta forgive them. [00:12:59] [00:13:00] Where does forgiveness play in all of this in your view? What have you experienced in the forgiveness realm? Massive amounts. So, I’d love to share a little story, if I can. It comes from a book, a children’s book if you’re familiar with the author Neil Donald Walsh, he wrote the book’s series, Conversations with God. [00:13:23] No, I don’t know that. Now, I have not read his books. In for adults, but I did read his book to children and he wrote this book called The Little Soul in the Sun. And here’s what I’ll share paraphrasing the book. The little soul goes to God and says, God, I’m ready to experience life on earth. And God says, okay, great little soul. [00:13:43] Let’s get you ready. And he says, but wait, little soul, if you’re going to experience life on earth how do you want to experience? What do you want to experience it as? And the little soul says, I don’t know. I know I want to experience life as forgiveness. And so God says, okay, [00:14:00] great. [00:14:00] Let’s get you ready. But wait, little soul. If you’re going to experience life as forgiveness you’re going to need something to forgive. And another little soul walked in and raised her hand and said, I’ll be that for you. And the little soul said, why would you do that? Your light is so beautiful. Why would you do that for me? [00:14:18] And she said, because I love you, but I have one favor. And the little soul says what I’ll give you anything you would do that for me. And she says, I’m going to be so good. at helping you find forgiveness, that I might forget how bright my light is, and I’m going to need you to remember. And the little soul said, of course I will. [00:14:38] Absolutely. And then another little soul raised his hand and another little soul. And all these souls came with that one little soul to earth to help him find forgiveness. So when I think about that story, I see the divine choreography of my entire journey. My ability to find forgiveness is to set my soul [00:15:00] free. [00:15:01] And trust in the divine that everything is in divine order. And that what if my father signed up to be the adversity for me to understand shame at such a level that now I’m committed to helping people out of it. That I can peg shame in a heartbeat and that I can help people through it because I lived it. [00:15:20] That my brothers partnered with me to be the loss that I felt so gut wrenching that I either chose my fate or I chose to abandon it and I came to a crossroads. And I got to decide so that now I can love it forward and I can help others not have to suffer in grief. And that every part of my journey was divinely choreographed on my behalf. [00:15:41] And then my ex husband came and he also signed up to be that adversity in my life, to help me find my resilience, to help me find my resolve, to help me choose me at a time where I didn’t know what, how to do that. I didn’t know how to choose me. I only knew how to choose everyone but me [00:16:00] until it came to a threshold and either I died or I chose to live. [00:16:05] And he had to be that depth of darkness for me to find the depth of my life. Right. So forgiveness allows me to set free, not only myself from the shouldn’ts, like my brother shouldn’t have been killed. My father shouldn’t have abused me. My ex shouldn’t have, right? If I go around saying that shouldn’t have happened I’m in an argument [00:16:28] with reality. I’m in an argument with what actually happened. And so I can’t say that shouldn’t have happened because it did happen. So instead of saying that shouldn’t have happened, how did that happen for my highest and greatest good? How did that happen for me to build a muscle that was going to allow me to carry and be good in the world and to have compassion and care and to understand that my father was not born evil. [00:16:55] My ex was not born evil. There was a culmination. My father [00:17:00] was sexually abused by a youth counselor, I found out many years later. My ex husband had a brutal alcoholic mother that beat his sisters unconscious. They were developed in their own unconscious conditioning. And so it doesn’t mean I want to be around them. [00:17:16] Right. Right. But I have understanding and I have compassion and I can release the hold of unforgiveness because unforgiveness is like drinking poison every single day, expecting the other person to die. Right. So, and the consequences of unforgiveness are dampening the purity of my own soul because who we are is love innately. [00:17:39] And to live in unforgiveness is an argument that shouldn’t have happened. It did. So now how do I release that from the clutches of blame and the clutches of victimhood and the clutches of anger and resentment, and I release it so I can find the gift. In all the pain, cause there is one. We’re just [00:18:00] not taught to find it. [00:18:01] Wow. That I have never heard forgiveness taught the way you just said it. That book is amazing. Just what you shared with us. I’m going to put the title of that book in the show notes because completely unique perspective on forgiveness. Never heard anything like it. And some people need different avenues of thinking about it besides the conventional, just forgive and forget and blah, blah, blah. [00:18:33] I’ll tell you when my father passed away, the irony of life, I have a half sister, yeah, from his first marriage. And, we were both taking care of him and changing his diapers pretty much. He had leukemia and a little bit of Alzheimer’s, so he would go in and out. And there was a moment two weeks before he passed where he was conscious and clear. [00:18:57] And he just looked at me and he said, I [00:19:00] wish I could have been the father you deserved. And I know without a moment’s hesitation, I was able to say to him, dad, you were perfect. You were who I needed you to be. So that I could be who I am today. And I am good, but it’s taking a lot of strength to say that the innocence came back to it, I could feel the tension relief from his cheekbones. [00:19:20] And I know he died knowing that I had forgiven him. And for me, that was everything. And even to the to the extreme of the man who murdered my little brother, which by the way, he, it was an argument over money, just obscene thousand dollars. That’s What my brother died for. I looked at him in my sense, my speech in court. [00:19:44] And at this stage of the game, I think again, what was expected was condemnation. What was expected was anger was what was expected was how dare you take my brother. [00:19:54] What I came resolved to is like, look, cause the whole thing in court came [00:20:00] out. It was wild. And he was able to plead self defense and the district attorney didn’t press, didn’t want to push it because they fear they were going to lose. It was a whole nightmare. So he’s basically getting off. [00:20:10] And I’m like, what am I going to do with that? Like, it’s not justice. It’s all screwed up. But anyway. I said to him, I said, look, for whatever reason you entered our family. And for whatever reason, my brother’s not here. And you are do something with your life. Don’t let this define you. [00:20:29] Let it define you in a way that you go out in life and you become somebody and you help people that are going to make stupid decisions and you speak life into them. Cause that’s what we were going to do. You’re the one that’s here. Let this be the wake up call. And he just stared at me and, but again, because I do no service berating him or making him feel like the trash he already feels like. [00:20:52] That doesn’t serve anything. You’re going to go back out in society. So me berating you is the expected freaking response so that you [00:21:00] can go out and still be unworthy and still go freaking do something else stupid. Instead, I’m going to freaking call forward the highest part of you. I’m going to call forward the little spark, whatever’s in there that can make a decision to do something better with his life, because for whatever reason, you’re still walking this earth and my brother is not, that’s what the power of forgiveness is. [00:21:20] We just been to church folks. That was your sermon for the week. That was powerful. I mean, only the spiritual part of us can do that. That is definitely divine power. We can’t forgive in our humanity. We got to forgive in God’s grace, the fierce grace that you mentioned. [00:21:41] Yes. Oh, this is amazing. I don’t want to forget to give you a chance to talk about your ministry, your resources, what you have to offer the folks listening if they want to connect with you and need someone like you as a coach. I guess I [00:22:00] want you to show that book that you showed me before we started because think people would like to read your story. [00:22:07] Sure. It’s called Broken to Brilliant here, and it says, Breaking Free to Be You After Domestic Violence, Stories of Strength and Success. It’s a story of 11 women we are all kept anonymous on purpose. All proceeds go to the nonprofit organization called Broken to Brilliant. And my chapter is chapter seven and it says genuine human kindness. [00:22:33] Can it make a difference? That was my story because that’s what woke me up. So that’s where you’ll find me, but you’ll also find 10 other stories of ladies that have navigated situations of domestic violence. And this is one of, I think it was four or five versions of this book where people tell their stories. [00:22:51] I think it’s powerful because it’s not it’s half people’s story and then half tips on what you can do. So it’s [00:23:00] powerful. And that was written by a lady that I coached for over a year. She had to leave her country to get away from her ex with her two children. And she created massive success, but she still lived in fear. [00:23:13] And she decided to put this book together. So it’s really beautiful. I also want to offer you guys a 10 step guide to freedom. It’s a freebie that will be put, the link will be put in the show notes. And it’s just a guide to help you know that you’re not helpless and that you can take action right now, even though it feels like there’s no way out. [00:23:34] And so some tips on helping you take action and do something today. So please do download that. I think it’s powerful. I offer one on one coaching and I also offer a program. I’ve taken my 20 plus years of not only my own journey, but also my study of the human experience and how we get through this. [00:23:55] I’ve packed it into a 12 week course that I [00:24:00] walk people through to help heal our trauma. Because I think that there’s three levels to trauma. There’s undiagnosed, there’s unacknowledged, and there’s unresolved. And oftentimes we don’t even know. We think trauma is a big rape. It can be, of course, but trauma is whatever the child made meaning of in the moment of the experience. [00:24:19] I didn’t know I had labeled myself shameful. I didn’t even know to call it shame. I didn’t even know to call myself unworthy or filthy. I just knew I took that on. Right. And so I didn’t know till later on when I started to do my own coaching and my own therapy that I was like, Oh my God, you mean I don’t have to believe that way. [00:24:38] I didn’t even know I could think differently, and so. It’s all in our unconscious conditioning. So how do we wake up from that? And how do we heal it? Because what I think is happening in the information highway that we have is that people are intellectualizing and they’re knowing their way out of healing. [00:24:54] And what I mean by that is we’re buying the books. Right? We’re going to the seminars and we’re learning [00:25:00] ways to move through. And what’s happening is, it’s great, it gets us to a certain place, but we’re bypassing the healing. So guess what happens? We do the thing, we get far, and then we find ourselves stuck again, and it invites a deeper level of shame. [00:25:16] Because well, now I know better. I read the books, I went to the workshops, but here I am again. Why? Because you’re installing new software on an old OS. Expecting it not to glitch, right? So we got to update, upgrade the operating system of the mind. And we do that by healing. And that means we have to be with whatever trauma moments we have and we have to clear, we have to acknowledge them and clear them. [00:25:43] We have to heal them. We have to face off with them. That little girl is there still nagging like a baby mommy. It will continue to show up until we address it and give it the love that we can only give it. So we stop seeking that void to be filled outside of us versus inside of us. [00:26:00] We look for it in a man or a partner or we look at it in a job or we look at it in our children. [00:26:06] And we’re literally chasing our worthiness on all these things. And it’s a cat chasing its tail. And we’re exhausted and we feel empty and we don’t know why. Because we haven’t addressed this unresolved trauma. So that’s what the program’s about. I’m happy to jump on a call with anybody, it’s a free call. [00:26:27] Let’s just talk and let’s just see where you’re at. And I would love to support you. Yeah, this has been gold, everything that you’ve said. And if Jesse has been somebody that you relate to, that you connected with her story, her personality, the way she communicates truths, definitely reach out to her, get her advice and her resources. [00:26:53] I know we talked a lot about a lot of stuff today. Was there anything that you [00:27:00] wanted to end with that we didn’t talk about? Sure. I want to say for everyone that’s listening, you matter, and you are worth seeking help. You are worth. Sharing with someone. People want to help, but we can’t do it if you don’t reach out. [00:27:19] And you matter to this whole collective, to this whole state of humanity. Yes, you, right? You think, Oh, who am I? Right? You know what? Here’s the thing. The people that treated me kind, that saved my life will never know who they woke up. And I’m committed to shifting humanity. I’m committed to awakening more beautiful light warriors to go out into the world and build an army of angels that will act with benevolence, kindness, purity, innocence, and love. [00:27:46] Those are my five ethos. And if we can wake up the human spirit to that, we can change. Change the world. Every human being matters because you matter. You touch 300 people that now will effectively change the world. So let’s do this together. You [00:28:00] don’t have to go it alone. Amen, sister. I am so glad to know you and have met you today. [00:28:07] Definitely. Stay [00:28:08] in touch. I’d like to connect and meet other advocates and yeah, you’re welcome to come back on the show anytime. I would love that. I would love that. Absolutely. Thank you so much, Diana, for having me. You’re so welcome. God bless you. Likewise. [00:28:26] Thank you for listening to the Wounds of the Faithful podcast. If this episode has been helpful to you, please hit the subscribe button and tell a friend. You can connect with us at DSW Ministries. org where you’ll find our blog along with our Facebook, Twitter, and our YouTube channel links. Hope to see you next week!