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Kirsten D Samuel understands first-hand the shock and pain of discovering your spouse’s porn use. Through the healing process, she also received counseling related to suicidal depression, PTSD, and an anxiety disorder. As a coach, she has empowered hundreds of women to rediscover peace in the mess, heal their broken hearts, regain their confidence, and create a healthy path forward. Kirsten has been featured on the Focus on the Family Daily Broadcast, Chris Fabry Live on the Moody Radio Network, and many relationship and recovery podcasts. Women who work with her finally find the freedom to be who they are beyond their partner’s struggles and find hope that there is a life worth living out there for them.
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Kirsten Samuel Part One
[00:00:00] What would you do if your husband came home and confessed he was caught at work using porn and in danger of losing his job? Would you stay? That happened to my guest today, Kirsten Samuels, has a happy ending to her story. Come and find out how, next on the Wounds of the Faithful podcast. [00:00:23] Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer, songwriter, speaker, and domestic violence advocate, Diana Winkler. She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help. [00:00:49] Now, here is Diana. [00:00:57] Welcome, folks. Come on in. The [00:01:00] water’s fine. [00:01:00] We’ve got a very exciting guest for you today. And [00:01:05] we talk a lot about porn on this show. We’ve had a lot of guests on the show. Most of the people on the show are victims of the porn use and their spouses do not want to repent or get help to save the marriage, to save the relationship, to save their job, but my guest today, she and her husband beat the odds. [00:01:29] They’re still married today, and so we’re going to find out how that happened, what was their journey, a little bit about her husband’s journey and his addiction, how did they break free of this, and what was the other surprising element in this whole situation. There were some layers underneath, like an onion. [00:01:54] On Kirsten’s side that we’re going to find out about. And I think that you’ll be blessed [00:02:00] with her story because she has probably been where you are. If you have a loved one that has a porn addiction she’s been there. And she’s very relatable and has gone through that rollercoaster of emotions. [00:02:15] And she’s come out on the other side, so I think that you’ll really learn a lot from this interview and some principles you can apply even to your situation. Let me read her bio real quick here. Kirsten D. Samuel understands firsthand the shock and pain of discovering your spouse’s porn use. Through the healing process, she also received counseling related to suicidal depression, PTSD, and an anxiety disorder. [00:02:47] As a coach, she has empowered hundreds of women to rediscover peace in the mess, heal their broken hearts, regain their confidence, and create a healthy path forward. [00:03:00] Kirsten has been featured on many relationship and recovery podcasts. Women who work with her finally find the freedom to be who they are beyond their partner’s struggles and find hope that there is a life worth living out there for them. [00:03:15] So we’re also going to be talking about her book, Choosing a Way Out, that is on her website. So I will not delay any further because we have a lot of ground to cover. I want to give her as much time as possible to tell her story. So, here’s my interview with Kirsten Samuels. [00:03:36] [00:03:36] Please welcome my guest , Kirsten Samuels. Thank you so much for coming onto the show. Thank you, Diana, for having me. It’s wonderful to be here with you. Yes. Our mutual friend, Kelly Hall, who was on the show a couple of weeks back recommended you to come on the show. I’ve heard your story and you definitely have some [00:04:00] experience that my listeners definitely need to hear. [00:04:04] You have a happy ending to your story, which is something I don’t hear very often. So we’re gonna just jump in here with starting from the beginning of your story. Were you raised in a Christian home? I was two very strong believing parents who loved each other. [00:04:24] Very stable home surrounded. I grew up in a small town in the Midwest and surrounded by a lot of extended family. I think I had an idyllic childhood, really. It took me a long time. I was in college before I realized that not everybody grew up that way. I just always felt safe. [00:04:44] When I was a small child I just, I knew I was loved. I knew I was safe. I knew that I mattered all of those things. So I really did have I had a great relationship with my mom and with my dad. And they were, very different [00:05:00] relationships. But I just considered myself extremely blessed in my childhood home. [00:05:05] When did you come to know the Lord, in a personal way? I came to know the Lord, interestingly enough part of my story that we’ve referenced before is that there was an abuse incident in my story and I have had huge gaps in my memory for many years. And it occurred to me about 10 years ago that I came to know the Lord in the same year that the abuse occurred. [00:05:27] So I was nine years old and this is going to date me as far as my age is concerned, but I went to a children’s revival service and I participated in something that was called the Bubble Gum Choir and it was during that service that the presenter, the gentleman there who I knew very well because he was a friend of my dad’s I presented the story of salvation, what Jesus did for us on the cross. [00:05:53] And I knew. And so at nine years old, I went forward and met with a a teenager [00:06:00] from our church who was in her late teens at that time. And she prayed with me and I accepted Jesus as my savior. And that was great. And then I realized that was right very near the time of my abuse. [00:06:12] And that was a very traumatic event in your childhood that would change your life forever. So. Can you share a bit about what happened. Yeah. Like most stories of abuse, I knew my abuser. And like I said, I grew up in this very safe, small town, Midwest, kind of idyllic environment. [00:06:35] And I had no suspicion what was going to happen. And Without going into any of the details I went for a bike ride with this person because I trusted them. And and in the process, during that bike ride he suggested we stop at a place that I was very familiar with. I can still see that place in my head today. [00:06:57] And I have gone back and visited it because I needed to [00:07:00] redeem that memory. And he proceeded to abuse me at that point. But again, God was with me and this was part of my healing process was I never spoke about it to anyone. And I never told, as close as I was with my mom, and she was almost my best friend growing up, but I never told her until I was in another major crisis in my life and was told that I was suffering with suicidal depression. [00:07:31] And we traced it all the way back to the fact that I didn’t know how to voice what had happened. I took it all on myself. I must have done something wrong. I couldn’t believe that this has happened, but I was able to get away from the person that was abusing me. And I should not have been able to, I was a very small child. [00:07:51] I, I was little, I was tiny. I was petite and I wasn’t, I didn’t, and this was someone who was a lot older than I was. And I shouldn’t have been a [00:08:00] getaway, but I was able to get away. And for some reason he didn’t chase me. So I look back at that and as I’ve gone through that healing process of that memory with the Lord showed me that he was the one who was protecting me. [00:08:13] He was the one who was getting me away, who made it possible for me to get away. And I’m just really grateful for that. But I still never talked about it and the fact that I never talked about it and I pushed it down and I pushed it down and I pushed it down because I didn’t have words to put to it it came back around when I was in college I was attacked again and My second attacker was very random. [00:08:39] I did not know that this person, but I got cornered when I was in a public facility, I got cornered. And before I knew what was happening this man was inappropriate and in his, what he did, and that triggered. A lot of memories from the first one and but again, [00:09:00] I didn’t get help. I talked to a few of my college classmates that I felt I could trust and they recommended that I go see the Dean of the school, which I did. [00:09:12] The Dean didn’t give me a whole lot of help. I don’t know if they didn’t know what to do or whatever, but I kept telling everybody I’m okay. And I wasn’t okay, but I just shoved it back down. And you know what happens to a beach ball when you shove it under the water? [00:09:27] It comes shooting out. And that’s what happened with my abuse story. I was in my mid forties when it finally came shooting out. And and then I had the opportunity and I had the privilege. And I had the resources to get the help that I needed. But it left me with suicidal depression, an anxiety disorder, and PTSD. [00:09:50] So, I am still dealing with that today. [00:09:52] I listen to your story and I know that those that are listening can relate to you so [00:10:00] much. It just makes me angry when I hear about these men that took advantage of you. You’re innocent and didn’t do anything wrong. I had been fondled by a guidance counselor in seventh grade. [00:10:14] He groomed me for a year before he put his hands on me. And, like you, I was able to get away before it, went any further than that. I reported it. Good for you. So, my dad , he hired a private investigator. Wow. And I was very fortunate because My parents believed me, the principal believed me, and the police officer believed me. [00:10:36] And I knew that there were other girls that were getting fondled, but they would not testify against this counselor. He never went to jail or got punished for it. I thank God I went to another school the next year, but I know not very many people have that experience where they have they’re able to tell somebody and somebody that would believe them. [00:10:57] Yeah, one of the things that One of [00:11:00] the holes in my memory was, I thought my mom was there when I got home, and my mother and I, like I said, she was almost my best friend, growing up but I realized that when this occurred, my grandmother was there. Not my mother. My mom and dad, it was a major anniversary for them. [00:11:19] They had actually gone away for a few days, which was very rare in our family. Mom, they just didn’t do that. And so my grandmother had come to stay with us and This was one of the pieces, the holes that the Lord brought back to me a few years ago, where he actually let me see who was there at the door when I came home. [00:11:38] And my grandmother, I didn’t see her all that often because she lived in another town from us that was fairly far away. And so she didn’t recognize that. Where I think had my mother been the one that was there, she would have recognized and probably been able to help me articulate what was happening. [00:11:56] So I’m really thrilled that you had people believing you and [00:12:00] were able to articulate it and able to say what had happened. I wish I could have. Right. And if You didn’t do anything wrong. You deserved the way you were treated and a lot of people freeze up. More stories I hear that’s extremely common to be ashamed of what had happened even though you had nothing to do with it. [00:12:21] Right. And it still happens today. I don’t know if you experienced that, but you get into a situation. I had this happen on a job situation where there was a coworker of mine that was completely innocent in what he was doing, but it triggered me. And I literally froze, physically froze. [00:12:39] Oh, like he gave you a hug or something? Yeah, he just came up and threw his arm around me to give me a, quick little hug. And again, my husband knew him. This was completely innocent, but I literally froze and it was like, Oh, there’s a there’s another trigger I have to deal with here. [00:12:54] We haven’t dealt with that layer yet, and now, did anything happen between that and [00:13:00] when you met your husband, Dave? The incident in college was about a year before I met my husband. So, it was very close to that, and and so when we, We actually became really good friends. [00:13:12] We were part of a musical group together. And so it was a large a large group and we just got to know each other in that setting. And so we became really good friends before we ever started dating. Which I’m really thankful for. And Dave is just a real gentle, caring guy. After we were married, I used to, dream of the time that I could tell him I was pregnant and surprise him and do something really fun. [00:13:36] He always knew before I did that I was pregnant. So there was never a surprise for him. I couldn’t do it. That’s funny. Yeah. So you guys met at college or? Yep, we did. We met at college and we married after he graduated. And then and then we moved across country, which was we moved a thousand miles away from closest [00:14:00] family and it was one of the best things that could have happened to us because I, like I said, I grew up in this idyllic, small Midwestern town with all my family around me, which was. [00:14:10] Absolutely wonderful. I said, I lived in two houses, my aunt and uncle’s in my house. And we, my cousins and I just went back and forth. My grandmother was five blocks away and, there was just all of these, my paternal grandmother was five blocks away. And I just had all of these relatives all around me, but going a thousand miles away forced Dave and me to become our own unit and to really get to know each other. [00:14:35] in that first year of marriage. [00:14:36] My ex’s family was a huge Italian family and I did not come from that environment. So it was smothering to me, but we didn’t have that separation. And so they were always in our business and stuff. And it wasn’t until we moved across country that we we’re able to make our own decisions and learn mistakes [00:15:00] and stuff. [00:15:01] I understand what that feels like to be far away from your family. When you guys got married, did you talk about what kind of marriage you wanted to have? Did you have those tough questions and important discussions beforehand, or you just back in the day we just got married? [00:15:20] I would say yes and no. We did have premarital counseling, but it was separate because he was at school and I had moved back home. And we got married a week after he graduated from school. So there was no time in there for us to do premarital counseling together. And so we were asked all those questions, but we weren’t in the same room getting the answers, hearing what the other one would say, but then we would We would talk once a week on the phone on Sunday because it was the cheapest time to talk, we didn’t have those cell phone thingies, there was no text messaging. [00:15:51] We wrote lots of letters back and forth. And and so we did talk about some of those things, but because my husband also grew up in a very [00:16:00] strong Christian home. He was in the military. His dad was a military chaplain. And so they just, they had just a real tight family unit and I grew up in this strong, Christian home with this very large family, dynamic going on. [00:16:16] Everybody thought that we were pretty well matched, pretty ideal. We had the perfect setup to go in there. We talked about how many kids do you want to have, joint bank accounts, those kinds of things, when the kids come on, does, did I want to be a stay at home mom or did I want to keep working? [00:16:34] What did he want? What did that look like? We had those kinds of conversations, but I did mention to him about my early abuse. He was the first person I told and I quickly followed it with, but I’m okay. So I didn’t open up again to what really was going on inside of me, the fears that were inside of me. [00:16:56] And I didn’t know that he was also hiding a struggle. [00:17:00] And so we got married and. Carried a whole lot of baggage into the marriage with us. Both of us know the Lord, both of us love the Lord. Both of us wanted to serve the Lord. We talked about, what would we ever go on to the, and my husband has always loved like mission radio and that kind of thing. [00:17:17] And, what did I think about that? And I was willing to do it, but I was dealing with some health issues, which we knew were going to disqualify me from being on the field. And but I was open to it. There wasn’t any restriction there. It was like, I just want to do what the Lord wants me to do. [00:17:32] I want to be where he wants me to be. And, I was raised by a woman who, if your husband is doing what the Lord wants him to do. And you’re married to him. Your job is to support that and also do what the Lord wants you to do. And so that means you move across country, you move across country and you quit whining about it, and so, that was my mindset. I was going to do that. I wanted to be a good wife and a good mom. And really that was my [00:18:00] goal in life. Yes, we talked. We didn’t talk about the deeper issues. That sounds good so far. You have a great foundation, it sounds like. So, what happened between that day and then the fateful day that we’re going to talk about? [00:18:17] When everything fell apart. My husband was working for an international organization, an international Christian organization. And and like most companies, this was after the internet. really became available to all of us. And we started really getting online and digitally doing things instead of, using a typewriter and filing the paper and all of that other stuff. [00:18:38] We were more interconnected and, which has been wonderful with our friends that are missionaries overseas. We’ve been able to stay connected with them and lots of benefits. And we get to do stuff like this, which is just amazing. But when the internet became more accessible. [00:18:53] And when we finally had our own home computer that was connected to the internet and all of that [00:19:00] his struggle that he had been hiding and with, had been trying to walk away from for many years with pornography was very easily accessible and he got caught at work. Which they called him into HR and presented him with the evidence and he didn’t deny it, he knew what they had found. [00:19:22] And they gave him until the next day to come up with a plan of how he was going to leave this behind or he would immediately lose his job. So they, the IT department found it. They’ve been tracking it, yeah. Accountability software or something to that effect. Christian organization. That’s pretty serious. [00:19:42] It was very serious. And he knew it. The way he describes it is he’d be doing really well. And he was on about a three to four month cycle where he’d be doing really well. Something would trigger him. He’d start going, looking. Then he’d get disgusted. He’d feel all that shame and he’d blame himself and all of those [00:20:00] things that he didn’t want to do this. [00:20:01] And then he’d start to come out of it and he’d get back up and he’d rebuild his relationship with the Lord and come back and confess it all and be doing really great and then something would trigger it. And so it was about a three to four month cycle for him. He’d been exposed to pornography at the age of five and, many of us, like any kind of an addiction so many of us wouldn’t affect me, cause I remember being, going into in we had ice skating, outdoor ice skating ponds when I was growing up that would have warming shacks on them. So, when your feet were freezing, cause it was 35 below, you would go in there to warm up before you go back out on the ice. [00:20:39] And there were some boys in there that had a magazine and they were, all giggling about it. And out of the corner of my eye, I saw what it was and I was just disgusted. And. Never thought about it again. So it never, it didn’t get a hold of me. And yet it did for my husband, it got a hold of him and it piqued his curiosity. [00:20:58] Which then [00:21:00] he, we’re told, the Bible tells us that Satan prowls around us. He’s looking for who he can devour and Dave has story after story of, he was doing nothing. He was not looking for it because he would not go to buy a magazine. He would not go and to a peep show. He would not go, to a strip joint. [00:21:20] He would not do anything to seek it out, but he tells stories of being, walking down a street and. There’s a magazine centerfold laying wide open waiting for the bus on his way to school in elementary school and finding a piece of paper that he picks up to go throw in the garbage. And it’s a pornographic image stopping at a stoplight, driving in a car on his way to camp. [00:21:46] And he looks out the window and there’s a magazine wide open pornography. Just. He has story after story. So it was, he was under attack and doesn’t excuse the [00:22:00] choices that he made because he still made the choices when he, to go and look online. But he came home that night. [00:22:06] And I knew something was wrong. We were just about to be empty nesters. Our last one was out the nest, going to college and we were going to be empty nesters. And we were really looking forward to it because, we’d raised three kids and life was busy and we were finally getting stable. [00:22:22] And we thought, Oh, this is wonderful. And so we were both really looking forward to it. He is still my best friend. And when he told me that night after dinner, I just collapsed onto the bed and could not believe what I was hearing. This was so not who I thought I was married to. You didn’t see any signs beforehand, did you? [00:22:45] I did. I just didn’t know to look at them. I didn’t know what they were. And there had been an incident about nine years earlier where I had actually caught him. Looking at, well, I walked into the office and [00:23:00] when I walked in, he immediately shut off the computer. And I said, what’s going on? And it wasn’t Christmas time. [00:23:06] So it wasn’t like he was, checking out what could he get me for Christmas and he didn’t want me to see it. This was not, there was not that kind of thing. I didn’t realize that was a warning sign. And When I started to look back, when we got, when we reached out and got immediate help, I said, how did I not know? [00:23:25] And they said, you did. You just didn’t know the signs. And as I looked back and as we’ve gone through the healing process, and as I’ve learned more, I can now see some of those signs. So they were there. I just didn’t know what I was seeing. Yeah, and you love your husband and you want to believe the best about your husband and trust him. [00:23:44] Right. And he had been trustworthy in all these other areas, but that took me into it, it really cut me to the core and I went from being stunned and disbelieving and [00:24:00] I, you didn’t really say what I thought you said to, Extreme pain in, emotional pain and relational pain. And then to anger like I have never experienced before in my life. [00:24:13] I didn’t want to see him. I didn’t want to touch him. I didn’t want to be in the same room with him. I couldn’t believe what had happened. I couldn’t believe what he was telling me. And then it caused me to distrust everything that he said. Because I thought if you’re lying to me about this, what else are you lying about? [00:24:32] And up to this point, you thought you had a successful, happy marriage, right? I thought we were like, we had this thing that, we were great. Yeah. And you had a regular normal sex life, right? You were, yeah, there was nothing that rang the bells or no, no asking for some weird stuff or. [00:24:53] He did. That was one of my warning signs that I didn’t recognize was that he did ask for some things and I was like, [00:25:00] what? I don’t even know what you’re talking about. And again, I grew up sheltered. And I never looked at anything. So I never wanted to. But as I looked back and I started looking at the signs, I was like, oh, okay. [00:25:13] And as we’ve talked through it, he can tell me, yeah. Yeah. That’s what it was related to. And so yeah, no, I thought we had a great marriage. We never fought. We never, we agreed on most things. When we disagreed, we were able to come to resolution. We raised our kids with this, we knew the values we wanted to teach our kids. [00:25:32] We were very clear about that. We, we didn’t let our kids play mom or against dad or dad against mom. We just, we were always on the same page as that. And so I really thought that we had this. So heartbreaking, Kirsten, and yeah, all of the women here can probably feel that anger and have been there and going through that roller coaster of emotions [00:26:00] and feeling like it was their fault. [00:26:02] We are going to stop here. This is a good stopping place. We’re going to continue her story and Hear the ending of this entire situation, this trial, this challenging time in their life and see what happened, see them on the other side and what they are doing today as a ministry to help others. So please come back and listen to part two. [00:26:27] Next week on the Winds of the Faithful podcast. God bless you and bye for now! [00:26:32] Thank you for listening to the Wounds of the Faithful podcast. If this episode has been helpful to you, please hit the subscribe button and tell a friend. You can connect with us at DSWMinistries. org where you’ll find our blog along with our Facebook, Twitter, and our YouTube channel links. Hope to see you next [00:27:00] week!